Indefinite Hold?!?

Hi folks,

Our sources have told us that Barry Lyons has asked the township to put his proposal for Alexander Spring Village on "indefinite hold". If this is true, it represents a MAJOR VICTORY!

However, we still need to confirm the information. And, if true, that doesn't mean that we can completely relax. He can still opt to restart the process again. Plus, there is still the Shover Farm development on 641 that will be a problem for our way of life in West Pennsboro Township.

If anyone has any additional information on the status of Barry's project, email us.

Until then, we cannot let our guard down.

Still, we have momentum on our side.

What a great early Christmas present for us!

Merry Christmas!

Emergency Access?

Hi again, everyone,

Just a quick update on last night's Board of Supervisors Meeting and the hearing on the conditional use application for the Shover Farm Development: The developers said that they met with the fire houses in the township to get their opinion on emergency access to their proposed development for 390 units off 641. Shockingly, one of the developers failed to mention that he could not include sprinkler systems in some of his units because "it is cost prohibitive". Hmmmm....Why bring that up at the hearing and not before?

So, let's do some math. 390 units for the Shover development plus another 330 for the Alexander Spring Village project...does that equal enough emergency service personnel for our township??? And if there isn't enough, will the township have to hire more and raise our taxes to do so??

We don't know about you, but our budgets are stretched pretty thin already! No new taxes to support unpopular development in our township!!

Make sure the Board of Supervisors knows your opinion!

This Week's Township Meetings:

Hi everyone:

There are two township meetings this week. On Wednesday at 7pm, there will be a Board of Supervisors Meeting. The Shover Farm development for 390 apartments is on the agenda as a public hearing for conditional use. At the last meeting, several fire houses expressed their strong reservations to the proposal. We wonder if the developers have had enough time to make the needed changes?!

The other meeting is the Planning Commission on Thursday at 7pm.

Don't forget: each session has a public comment time for remarks.

See everyone at the meetings!

Shover Farm Developers are back up to bat

Hi there everyone,

Well the Shover Farm Developers are having another swing at their project off 641. They will be back in front of the Board of Supervisors next Wednesday the 17th at 7:00pm.

We've said this before: this development is a "canary in a coal mine" for the Alexander Spring Village project. Seeing how the Shover Farm development gets treated will be an indication of how Barry Lyons' proposal is viewed. It's worth showing up at this meeting and the Planning Commission meeting the following day on the 18th.

Pass the word!

Show us the Money!

Hi everyone,

We hope you had a nice Thanksgiving. We're thankful that we live in an area unspoiled by overdevelopment.

But that could change. With this crazy economy, who's loaning Barry the money to build his dream of 330+ townhouses? If the financing falls through in the middle of construction, then get used to scenes like the one above.

The dates for the Township Meetings are: Board of Supervisors is December 17th at 7pm; the Planning Commission meeting is December 18th at 7pm.

Hope to see everyone there!

Happy Thanksgiving!!!

New Sketch Plan for Shover Farm Development!

Hi again everyone!

Well, the Board of Supervisors was rightfully skeptical of the assurances by the developers of Shover Farm that their street plans would be adequate for Fire Dept. vehicles to access the 390 homes in the event of an emergency. Citing public safety concerns, the Board has asked for a new sketch plan from these developers!

Public safety is also a MAJOR issue for the Alexander Spring Village proposal. You can view that sketch plan by going to the About Me section to the right. Barry Lyons was at this meeting so he has not given up on his idea of bringing over 330 homes off McAllister Church Rd. and providing only one access drive! Look over the plan and find other public safety problems too!

Remember, we CAN make a difference. As the last Board of Supervisors meeting showed, nothing is a guarantee with development proposals if people remain committed and aware!

*****Special thanks to the Fire Houses who came to the meeting and voiced their concerns for our safety. Once again, they show us why they are heroes.*****

Canary in a Coal Mine

Hi everybody--

The other major construction project for our township is for 390 townhouses and apartments off 641 on the Shover Farm. This will be on the agenda for the the Board of Supervisors meeting on 19th of November . It is now at 6pm. The Planning Commission meeting remains the same: 20th of November at 7pm.

Attending this meeting will let everyone know how the Board of Supervisors is likely to treat the Alexander Spring Village project. We can also meet and exchange more information as we prepare for the next round with Barry Lyons, Craig Bachik and Steve Kertzig.

New Time for Board of Supervisors Meeting

Hi folks! There is a new time for the Board of Supervisors meeting on 19th of November . It is now at 6pm. The Planning Commission meeting remains the same: 20th of November at 7pm.

Remember: There are two delays in place for this project. 1) The continuance for the special exception to bring water, sewer and gas into a flood plain (Zoning Hearing Board) and 2) A tabling (delay) for a conditional use permit hearing (Planning Commission). Nothing can be approved by the Board of Supervisors until these matters are cleared up. The Planning Commission members who did not vote to delay a decision were Kemp Beatty and Allen McEllwain.

Those developers will be back, so keep doing your homework and spreading the word.

Feel free to contact the township directly at 243-8220 with any questions, but we will be keeping you up to date!

To all those who have served and are serving:

We humbly say, "Thank You"

McAllister Church HIGHWAY?!

McAllister Church HIGHWAY?! Let's hope not or the scene to the left might become a familiar sight in our neighborhood. In order to prevent it, we have to work together.

Remember: There are two delays in place for this project. 1) The continuance for the special exception to bring water, sewer and gas into a flood plain (Zoning Hearing Board) and 2) A tabling (delay) for a conditional use permit hearing (Planning Commission). Nothing can be approved by the Board of Supervisors until these matters are cleared up. The Planning Commission members who did not vote to delay a decision were Kemp Beatty and Allen McEllwain.

Trust us--those developers will be back so we have to do our homework.

The next Planning Commission meeting is the 20th of November at 7pm. So far, Barry Lyons, Craig Bachik and Steve Kertzing are not on the agenda to discuss Alexander Spring LLC. They can only get on the agenda seven days before a scheduled meeting. We will keep you informed or feel free to contact the township directly at 243-8220.

The Board of Supervisors meeting is the day before, the 19th of November at 7pm. A reminder, nothing can move to this level before the Planning Commission votes. However, it is worthwhile attending to become familiar with who is on our the Board of Supervisors and how the process works.

In the meantime, keep passing the word! We are seeing some positive results.

"Adult Uses"?!

Hi, Folks--

Do you know what else is permitted for conditional use in our township? In the Official Zoning Ordinance of West Pennsboro Township (enacted January 16, 2008) adult use businesses are permitted under section 401, pages 143-144. Here are some "conditions" for granting conditional use:

401.7--Any building or structure used and occupied as an adult use shall be windowless, or have an opaque covering covering over all windows or doors of any area in which materials, merchandise, or film are exhibited or displayed, and no sale materials, merchandise, or film shall be visible from outside of the building or structure;

401.9--Each entrance to the premise shall be posted with a notice specifying that persons under the age of seventeen (17) years are not permitted to enter therein and warning all others that they may be offended upon entry;

401.11--The use shall not create an enticement for minors because of its proximity to nearby uses where minors might congregate;

401.12--No unlawful sexual activity or conduct shall be permitted.

Wow!! As many of you know, Alexander Spring Village is also seeking conditional use under a different zoning. Many suggest that if Barry Lyons, Craig Bachik and Steve Kretzing meet the conditions, they can begin the process of putting 330 townhouses on McAllister Church Rd. What if another developer met all the conditions for "adult use"? Would the township go along with it too?!

Once again, remember who on the Planning Commission voted not to table (delay) conditional use for Alexander Spring Village: Kemp Beatty and Allen McEllwain. We wonder if they would vote "no" to table a conditional use for an adult use business??? We really hope they wouldn't vote "yes" just because it's in the Zoning Ordinance.

Does anybody else find conditional use zoning outrageous? We like to live out here away from stuff like this. Is West Pennsboro Township going to turn into the Bourbon Street of Central PA?

Adding to the outrage is:

Section 404 page 145 of the ordinance even permits "Horse Racing Facilities with Related Wagering".

Section 435 page 181 is for "Nightclubs".

Section 439 page 182 is for "Off-Track Betting Parlors and/or Slot Machine Parlors".

In fact, there seems to be more conditions placed on churches than for adult use businesses! This is astonishing....

Pass the word and check out the Official Zoning Ordinance of West Pennsboro Township for yourself here: http://www.rothplan.net/documents/OfficialZoningOrdinance.pdf

Who are these guys anyway?

Who is Barry Lyons of Barry Lyons Construction? Who are Craig Bachik and Steve Kretzing of Kairos Design Group? If anyone has any information about the previous projects of the developers for Alexander Spring Village, please contact us.

Don't forget: There are two delays in place for this project. 1) The continuance for the special exception to bring water, sewer and gas into a flood plain (Zoning Hearing Board) and 2) A tabling (delay) for a conditional use permit hearing (Planning Commission). Nothing can be approved by the Board of Supervisors until these matters are cleared up. The Planning Commission members who did not vote to delay a decision were Kemp Beatty and Allen McEllwain. Feel free to contact them at the Township to let them know how you feel about their vote. Remind them why we choose to live here.

But it's not over yet, not by a long shot! If you know anyone who is an engineer, a lawyer, law enforcement officer, emergency service personnel, environmentalist, road construction, traffic engineer, member of a hunting or fishing group, we need their expertise to look over the plans. We need many more people involved in this process. Plus, does anyone know people who work for local media outlets--tv, newspapers, radio, magazines? They should be contacted too.

Thanks again for all your support!!!

They'll be back....

Like Arnold said, they'll be back. Last night another blow was struck against Barry Lyons and Craig Baycheck at the Planning Commission Meeting. The commission decided to table (delay) sending the conditional use application to the Board of Supervisors!

The developers now have two delays--the Special Exception for bringing water and sewer into a flood plain (Zoning Hearing Board) and the conditional use application (Planning Commission). Don't be fooled--the developers are planning to resubmit their ideas. So, we have do some planning too.

If you know anyone who is an engineer, a lawyer, law enforcement officer, emergency service personnel, environmentalist, road construction, traffic engineer, member of a hunting or fishing group, we need their expertise to look over the plans. They don't have to be from the township (the developers aren't), but they can certainly help us.

Keep passing the word too. Last night there were 24 people at this meeting--the largest crowd at a planning meeting in years!

By the way, members of the Planning Commission voting against tabling the application were Kemp Beatty and Allen McElwain. I think they need to know how they failed the community and remind them about how the residents of the neighborhood feel about our quality of life in the area. You can write them at the township: 2150 Newville Rd. Carlisle, PA 17015.

Thanks to everyone who came last night and who are supporting the cause with phone calls and flyers! As you can see, it is making a difference. It's not over yet though.

On hold!!!

Hi folks-- We may have held off the possibility of the image to the left happening at the proposed Alexander Spring Village.

The Zoning Hearing Board wisely decided to ask Barry and his associates at Kairos Design Group, Craig Baycheck and Steve Kretzing, for more information before granting them a special exception to build on a flood plain.

Score another one for our side!!

The board was concerned that, as the first major development in West Pennsboro Township to propose building on a flood plain, Alexander Spring Village would need a closer look. The scope, type and way that sewer, water and gas would be brought into a flood plain also concerned 18 residents who came to the hearing. Keep it up, folks!!

Don't forget tomorrow's Planning Commission meeting at 7pm. This will be Barry proposing to move forward with a conditional use hearing in front of the Board of Supervisors. We will get more details on his plan for bringing nearly 1000 more people into the township with 330 townhouses so please attend!

A View of the Future??

The Zoning Board hearing for a special exception to bring sewer and water into a flood plain will be tonight at 6pm. We'll keep you informed of any decisions by the board....

Canary in a Coal Mine and a small victory

Hi Everyone--

Last night's township Board of Supervisors meeting was eventful!

First, the township hall was to capacity with most folks concerned about the development on the Shover Farm off 641. The developer sought a conditional use permit, but the Board of Supervisors preferred to get more public comment over the next 45 days. Whether or not this development is granted conditional use will be an indication of how the Alexander Spring Village project might be viewed. So, write the Board of Supervisors about your concerns! You can read about this particular issue here in the Sentinel: http://www.cumberlink.com/articles/2008/10/28/news/local/doc490711d6dbc1f449221453.txt

Secondly, during the public comment portion of the meeting, several residents expressed their opposition to Alexander Springs Village. More people are getting word about the development and are sharing their dissatisfaction. During the session, Board of Supervisor Member, David Twining, conceded that the proposed coffee shop and low end retail store for the red barn cannot move forward because the area is not zoned for it! Score one for us! (Sorry, Barry, but you'll have to get your cappuccino somewhere else.)

However, don't forget the Zoning Board Hearing for the special exception to bring water and sewer into a flood plain at Alexander Spring Village. That's tomorrow, Wednesday, at 6pm.

Also, the Planning Commission is scheduled for the next day, Thursday, at 7pm. We were assured that Alexander Spring Village will be on the agenda.

Special Exception for Sewage???

Hi again everyone,

Some people received a letter in their mail about the special exception hearing on October 29th (Wednesday), 6:00pm at the township building. The notice included in the letter reads in part:

"The Special Exception Application of Alexander Spring, LLC (Applicant) with a business address of 5237 East Trindle Rd, Mechanicsburg, PA 17050. In accordance with West Pennsboro Township Ordinance 2008-1, Applicant is required to obtain special exception to install any sewage treatment infrastructure, dams, bridges, culverts, relocated watercourses, or any sanitary or storm sewer impoundment basins within the defined Floodplain Overlay District.

Applicant is proposing to cross the Alexander Spring Creek wit public water and sewer and install infrastructure with the defined Floodplain Overlay District on property located at 74 McAllister Church Rd and 100 Barnstable Rd., Carlisle, PA"

It's time to for us to start asking some questions....

Next Township Meeting....

Hello again:

The next Township Board of Supervisors meeting is a SPECIAL SESSION on Monday, October 27th at 6:00pm to decide whether another development project will be granted a conditional use authorization. Although not specifically about the Alexander Spring Project, we can certainly learn a lot about how this development off 641 will be viewed by the supervisors.

So, drop by and see which of the supervisors is pro-development and which ones favor keeping our neighborhoods the way we like 'em!

ps--word on the street says that Barry the Developer for Alexander Spring Village is seeking a special exception for his water and sewage hook-up across a flood plain. We'll keep you informed and let you know when that hearing will occur!

Township Meeting Dates Changed!!!

Hi everyone--

The regularly scheduled township meetings have been changed:

--Tonight October 14th, 6:00pm is a Board of Supervisors meeting on Water and Sewer being brought from Carlisle.

--October 27th, Monday 6:00pm is a special session of the Board of Supervisors on the proposal for cluster development on Shover Farm just off 641.

We hope to see you there!

Update

Hi, everyone. There was no action at the Planning Commission meeting last night...but Barry the Developer did show up to listen to the proceedings.

The next Board of Supervisors meeting is Wednesday, October 15th at 7pm at the Township Building on Newville Rd. There is a public comment time when each person who would like to speak to the Supervisors is given five minutes.

Please come and let your voice be heard!

Planning Commission Meeting Thursday Night at 6:30

Howdy folks--

Tomorrow night, Thursday, October 9th at 6:30pm there will be a Planning Commission meeting at the township building on Newville Rd.

Let's see if there are any new developments about the development...and if Barry has anything to say this time...

Not so pretty in pink

Anybody noticed these pink markers and ribbons in the neighborhood? Is Barry the Developer already decorating the area before his 35o town houses are developed?

No, these are likely survey markers.

It's time to get involved. Send an email, add a comment or attend a township meeting.

The next township Planning Commission meeting is Thursday, October 9th, 6:30pm at the township building on Newville Rd.

And, now they're gone.

Hello again, everyone. Well, those pesky strips that were laid across our street are now gone. They were only there for two days. Is that really long enough to get a good count of how many vehicles travel along McAllister Church Rd. each day?

We won't know until Barry Lyons, the project's developer, lets everyone know at one of the township meetings. So far, he's been showing up, but has been so very quiet.

He's been a lot quieter than our street is gonna be when 700+ additional vehicles start hitting our streets.

So, are we going to be quiet while he keeps planning this 350 townhouse complex??

The next township meeting is Wednesday, October 15th at 7pm at the township building. Drop by and see if Barry has anything to say this time....

Counting cars

Anybody noticed these strips across McAllister Church Rd? They are very close to the proposed development and are there to count the number of vehicles that travel on our street. This is one of many things that the developer is doing so that he can begin his work on the property...it may also be the earliest sign that the road will be expanded and that "eminent domain" will be used to take our yards away.

With 350 town houses and approximately 2 cars per house, that'll be a lot of traffic for our tiny little street.

So, how many times a day do you think you can drive across those strips?

Don't forget the township meeting tonight at 7:00pm at the township building on Newville Rd.

Water, water everywhere...

except for the proposed Alexander Springs Village development. Hi again, everyone. We hope everybody stayed dry over the weekend; we sure needed the rain though.

All the rain did get us to think about water issues for this development and for the neighborhood. Since our neighborhood is all on well and septic, this means water and sewage for 350 new houses will have to come from somewhere...across somewhere. Will water from Carlisle come across farmland, or up the Ritner Highway?! Wow! That's a lot more digging up of the environment and more traffic issues along route 11.

And, it also means residents near the complex will have to get public water and sewer hook-up...that they have to pay for themselves!!! Yup, Carlisle and the township ain't gonna pay for the hook-up, especially with this economy.

Don't forget the township meeting on Wednesday, 1 October at 7:00pm at the township building.

Why so quiet, Barry?

Hello again--The developer Barry Lyons (pictured to the left) was actually at the Township Planning Commission meeting last night....but had nothing to say.

He certainly likes to keep a low profile. For a big time developer, he has no website and has no other examples of his other projects that he has presented to the township. Hmmm....that's odd. And, we're told that he only signed into the meeting after other people had left the room. Why is that? Of course, as we've also learned, he was quite happy to talk with Planning Commission members in private after the meeting was adjourned and people had left the building....

C'mon, Barry, show folks what you've got!

The next big meeting will be the Township Board of Supervisors on 1 October at 7:00pm at the township building.

Township Planning Commission Meeting on Thursday

Hi again everyone--

More and more people are hearing about this project...and they're not liking it. Who can blame them. Not only are there environmental, quality of life and safety issues involved, overall zoning questions are being raised by residents of West Pennsboro Township.

• Why does a developer think he can get approval for 350 town houses?
• Who voted on the new zoning to eliminate farm land in favor of cluster development?
• Why are ordinary residents getting shouted down by supervisors at meetings about zoning?

Well, those questions and more can be raised at the Planning Commission Meeting, 25 September, Thursday, 7:00pm, at the township building on Newville Rd. We do know the answer to one question: who are the members of this commission? They are: Randy Bailey, Thomas Adams, Kemp Beaty, Richard Mains, Harvey Hoover, Alan McElwain.

We hope to see you there! Thanks again for stopping by this blog.

Welcome New Visitors to the Web Site

Hi folks,

Well, it seems like our little campaign has gotten your attention. That's just what we need--more people aware of the project that is happening just down the road.

Feel free to read some of the entries on here and make up your own mind whether you want Alexander Springs Village to become a reality. There is still time to act. And post your own opinions and ideas on this blog too. All thoughts are welcome!!!

We need more people to know about the project, the developer and the township meetings. There is a township meeting this Thursday at 7:oopm at the Township building on Newville Rd. Try to make it if you can. If you can't, rest assured we will have all the information about it right here so visit often.

You can even email us at redbarnneighbor@gmail.com.

Thanks for stopping by the site.

Here it is Click on the picture to enlarge

This is the project! McAllister Church Rd. is on the left. Below would be Route 11 (Ritner Highway) about 1.5 miles away. Above would be Newville Rd. about two miles away.

****Special thanks to the person close to the project for supplying the design.***

It must be getting hot in the kitchen

David Twining, Supervisor Chairman of West Pennsboro Township can't hold his temper....I wonder why? After telling a township resident to "shut up and sit down" numerous times during the last Township meeting, the resident was given FIVE whole minutes to speak. How generous. How long do Barry Lyons, the developer of Alexander Springs, and the execs from Sheetz get to talk?

Why is David Twining so angry?

We've heard that the change of zoning wasn't even done with public comment!! Is this true?

Come to the Planning Commission Meeting on Thursday at 7:00pm!

Township Supervisors Go Crazy!!!!!

Can a resident of West Pennsboro Township ask a question during a meeting? If you went to the Supervisors meeting last Wednesday, the answer would be "shut up!!" One neighbor who had questions about zoning was told to shut up by the supervisors. The meeting was abruptly adjourned. And, none of the questions were about the horror show that will be Alexander Springs Village.

If you want to see some real fireworks, wait until those questions get asked. Who is going to be forced to shut up when their homes and safety are put in jeopardy?

These supervisors are completely unserious....except about their own opinions.

The next big meeting is Thursday, 25th of Sept. at 7:00pm at the Township building on Newville Rd.

Anybody want to show up and see what that's like?

Ghost town?

How are your mutual funds and stocks doing these days? Makes a person wonder who or what bank would loan money to finance new construction of 350 town houses that start (allegedly) at $200k.

It could mean the developer gets permission and just enough money, then fails to finish the job. The result would be an empty construction site and a torn up environment in the township. So West Penn gets to be known as that township with that disaster off the Ritner Highway. Yeah, let's go live over there.

Existing property values take a further hit because of the development. Don't be fooled!!

We need to do something about it.

Increased traffic

Hey again, everyone--

If you're worried about traffic on the Ritner Highway or Newville Rd, wait until 350 more households are nearby!! Let's say each house has 2 cars, that's 700 more automobiles on either road.

The developer admits that turn lane "improvements" will be needed. That's developer talk for widening the roads, and putting up traffic lights. Will the township call this "eminent domain" and take our yards from us?!

Plus, if you think getting to Carlisle or accessing I-81 is a problem now, just wait until there are 700 more vehicles during rush hour.

Some of the Problems with developer Barry Lyon's Project

Hi, folks--

Thanks for checking out our blog. This entry is about the environmental impact of the development. The developer plans to build a sewage plant near a flood plain and on or near a wetland. They are convinced that the measurements for a flood plain are "inaccurate" and it's a "once in a hundred year" event. Tell the people in New Orleans, Galveston and along the Mississippi River about a "once in a hundred year" event! Imagine sewage streaming into the river and affecting people in the local neighborhoods?

Also, what about the loss of the old growth trees in the area? The developer says they plan to "save as many as possible". There goes another local habitat for local wildlife!

The township has NO plan to investigate what the impact on the local ecology will be. They just want to build and get more tax revenue.

What do you think we can do?